xj's gonna get a makeover

[CntStpTheStnk06]

[Harry]

Our build plans are strikingly similar.

How long did it take you to get those Ballistic combo bucket/brackets? I was looking at those, they are tits. Definitely what I'd like to use. But as always, I'm quite weary of ordering anything from them based on past experiences...

Looking good so far! Can't wait to catch up...

[ct67_72]

They came the week after I ordered them. I did it early too figuring it would be a while.
I finished disassembling the 60 last night. Seporated the hubs/rotors.
I have to cut everything off now and get it mocked up, then ill gear it.

[ct67_72]

Well I'm an idiot. I got the front gear set with the rear axle and was told it was a standard set, so I've been looking to trade it or find a carrier, so a guy on pirate pm's for the part number, which I never really paid attention to and when I look at the box, the number days -T.
So I'm fucking stupid, Yukon only makes the reverse rotation 60 gears in 5.13 thick. So I almost bought a carrier for nothing.

[justtorchit]

Hey,
I saw your post on pirate about the 3 link set up.
I know you are trying to do this on a budget and what not but i have some questions and input.
Why not leave the lower arms the way they are on the crossmember you have?
i know you said you dont want to cut your floor.... but its the way to go, make your own bracket on the unibody rail, make it so the bolt hole for the upper arm sticks just above the floor line. then it would be tits to box it up and you would probably not notice it when the carpet is back over it. Brace the upper link bracket good and maybe find a way to brace it to teh crossmeber with a flange of some sort. Also you can make the upper arm shorter and that should help your numbers and make it so where it comes through the floor is farther foward. only down side it the pinion will go down a little bit as you travel the suspension..... but you have a high pinion and it wouldnt matter.

if you did it this way it would be easy, cheap, and done pretty much correct the first time.

dont mount your links under the frail rails!!!.... i did on mine and they were just to low and hung me up a few times. id never mount them below again.

-Andy

[Harry]

FWIW, my friend with a ZJ inboarded his lower link mounts similar to yours (at least I'm assuming based on what you described, can't see the pics here at work.) For his upper link mount, he used a heim joint turned 90 degrees, so as it travels through the range of motion the missalignment in the heim is what would be moving. He basically boxed the upper mount to floor. The bolt holding that heim in goes through the floor and that's it. Pretty simple. Doesn't offer a ton of separation at the frame end, but it works well for him. I also remember reading when I built mine that axle end separation was much more important than frame end anyway.

As far as the heim having enough misaligment, I believe my upper link is 18-20" (can't remember) but it's slightly inclined (higher at axle end) at ride height. At full droop with 10" shocks, I'm still not at the end of it's useable range of motion. And if you're running longer links, they will be at even less of an angle than mine (my lowers are level at ride height and look like a short arm Jeep with 5" of lift at full droop.) It works very well for me, I never find myself in any situations where I wish I had more travel.

So in short, I'd say it's possible to get what you want without cutting the floor, IF you're willing to flip the heim 90 degrees which opens up a lot of mounting options.

[ct67_72]

I thought about it quite a bit, and the problem Im having comes down tot he fact that I dont have room for a third link how my x-mamber is currently. The lowers are inside quite a bit and up high. they are probably 1.5" above the frame. I could fit an upper, but it would take way more work than im interested in doing right now, especially being that I want to make a new x-mamber and run it a specific way.
So for now, it has to work, and will get changed probably next year.
So running the links under would resolve this, and they would actually be shorter, like a mid arm almost, sort of similar to your harry, but with a longer upper link to where my lowers are mounted now, this should keep the pinion pointed up through droop. Right now I can bottom my 12" shocks both ways, and with the pinion angle being low to keep good caster on the 60, every bit helps.
Honestly, I think being forward a bit will keep them from getting hung up, and the arm should act like a slide to pass the mount anyway, but if Im not happy with it, I will address it when i build the new x-member anyway, but it would have it working pretty well for now, without a ton of time involved or added cost.
Bad pics but my current lower mount

[ct67_72]

actually looking at the pics, the lowers are about freme height, but even mounted under the frame, wont be lower than the x-member. The ends are tapered but the x-member is still lower than the frame. about the same as the links will be.
Once I build a new one, the t-case is also going to get clocked flat, so I can belly skid it. But for now I think this is the best way.
Oh, and I wont have great frame wide seporation. maybe 1-2" but Ill be adjustable on the axle side, and regardless it will be better than the radius arm setup

[Harry]

Honestly, I think being forward a bit will keep them from getting hung up

This is very true for mine. My lower mounts have a little rash, but not much. As is, they hang less than an inch lower than the factory mounts (and are about 3"+ higher than my old drop bracket mounts, those sucked) and my arms are perfectly flat at ride height. Even with 33's, the only things I ever find myself hung up on enough to impede forward progress are my axles really. Like Andy said though, I would never run an arm mount under the rails on a longer arm, but it doesn't sound like you plan to do that anyway.

I'm starting to get lost though... Why not just run your radius arms with the 60 till you're ready to redo that? I know a guy in my old club with an abused Dakota on tons/42"s who runs a straight link on the driver's side and a radius arm on the passnger side if you don't want to do the whole diff truss thing. Just food for thought.

[ct67_72]

It is the whole truss thing. and Im not keen on the idea of only running one upper on a radius arm, at least not with that size tire and gear, too much leverage for me to be confortable with.
I really do think my idea will work pretty well. Like you said, if I was going to run arms as long as my lowers are now, there is no way I would mount them under the frame, but being that they will be 6-7" shorter, I think it will be just fine. Really if you think about where my arm now starts to hang under the frame and where the new one will be, im barely loosing clearance.

[Harry]

I can see the pics now, so I understand a little more. Here is a pic of my buddy's setup on his ZJ (taken before he was finished obviously):



This started life as the Rock Krawler kit, so I think the arms are like 30" or so? Yes, his upper is shorter than his lowers. But so is mine, because that's where it fit haha. Also, obviously the upper link is mounted further forward so the upper isn't as short as it appears. My pinion doesn't point straight at my transfercase through the range of travel, but it doesn't do anything funky. Stays pointed relatively up. I feel like this could work well for you since it doesn't require any crazy fabbing, retains your 'long' arms, no diff truss, and no floor cutting besides the bolt hole.

Here are a couple pics of mine. My setup is much different since it is so much shorter:





All just ideas. I always enjoy seeing what people end up doing on their own.

[ct67_72]

Thanks man. Im pretty sure I know what Im going to do. Like I said the upper will mount to my current x member, and my lowers like yours, just a little longer, maybe 2-3". Then the upper will end up about 2-3" longer than that. I think it should work well, then next year Im going to build a real nice x-member, 3 piece to mount the lowers and the upper properly. Assuming that I need to raise the lowers, or end up wanting them longer

[CntStpTheStnk06]

cant wait to see this beast wheel again!!

[ct67_72]

Did some cutting and fitting today. Got most of the brackets cut off and the drivers mount mocked up. Welder started acting up so I got pissed off and stopped.
I also welded the front carrier yesterday at work. Burned the side gears to the case with 3 passes at 200 amps. Then welded the spiders to the case. Then the spiders to eachother. Bad pic but you can get the idea

[ct67_72]

Still have to finish cutting off brackets, got sick of cutting today, axle got cleaned up a bit.
God the drivers mount tacked on good for mock up and I welded the shock tabs on to test out the welder. Not my prettiest welds, but not too shabby for flux core. Im going to be "dragging" all my welds for a little better penetration, which is a little more important than looking good.