Steering/Swaying question

[crosbike]

i try not to assume what other people know and don't know. There are some big tards in the offroad community....

[Dirtyjeep92]

uhh dont mean to hijack but from just skiming through this. only running one upper is a BAD idea? because i have seen kits eliminating the pass side mount. Clayton for example?

[Zullock Holmes]

Clayton's radius arm setup never used one upper control arm.

IRO radius arm uses one upper and its a TERRIBLE design. There are alot of forces in play under that vehicle and with one upper, there is literally one 10mm grade 8 bolt taking on all of the torque from the front axle.

When is it swaying? Are your lower arms straight?? there is a certain level of triangulation from the factory setup (hence why the lca mounts on the axle point inward). Straight lowers will cause a trackbar joint to wear out faster, which will allow the axle to move side to side under the jeep. Swaying back and forth could be a prelude to death wobble.

Check your caster angle, if it is not set correctly (around 4.5-5 degrees of negative caster measured on the bottom of the inner c) then it will cause wandering on the road.

Judging from that first picture you should have very little bumpsteer, but because bumpsteer occurs along 3 planes and not just two, it is possible a bad caster angle may have more of an influence because you eliminated bumpsteer in the vertical plane. But unlikely.

The fact that you have one upper with an RE joint on one end is most likely the problem. I can garuntee you that thing is moving. And that means your axle is literally rotating down on acceleration, changing the caster and rotating up when braking.

In a radius arm setup you need to think of the lowers as an axis and when either braking or accelerating takes place, that force trys to rotate the axle along that axis. That produces ALOT of rotational force (torque) and that's why its important to have both of the uppers on. With both arms the force is split evenly between them and the bolts/joints can handle it without issue, but with only one the amount of force that little bolt has to hold is double. If you're doing 70 on the highway and slam on your brakes and that one bolt sheers, its gonna be a bad news bears kinda day.

I'm not giving you shit or calling it a hackjob or even trying to lecture, but there are reasons that suspension manufacturers either put alot of time into design or buy really BIG insurance policies (RK, IRO, Rustys.... just to name a few, although they have made improvements). Suspensions bear the most external forces of any part of a vehicle, so cutting corners due to a tight budget is ALOT worse then some believe especially when it comes to the geometry of those links.

If i were you, I'd say fix the arm setup and then go through the front end with a fine tooth comb. Replace anything that seems worn out and your problems should dissolve. I used to be able to hold 75-80 mph with my jeep on the highway with one hand on the wheel, you just need to take the time and spend the nessesary amount of money to make sure everything up there is secure and fresh.

[Zullock Holmes]

uhh dont mean to hijack but from just skiming through this. only running one upper is a BAD idea? because i have seen kits eliminating the pass side mount. Clayton for example?

And to eliminate three link thoughts here.

There is a BIG difference between a radius arm kit with one upper link removed and a true 3 link.

The Clayton kit that keeps being mentioned is a true 3 link where the single upper arm mounts to a seperate point on the frame/unibody. That upper arm uses 9/16's grade 8 hardware with much larger 2 5/8" johnny joints, designed to bear the load that will be applied to it. Also it is designed to sit flat at ride height to transfer that force directly into the unibody.

Lots of rockcrawlers use this 3 link because in design it is actually stronger than the full radius arm setup with both upper arms intact. It's application is more specific to larger, heavier front axles (dana 60, etc) where front digs will be done. Because this creates much more torque on the front axle and essentially more strain on that upper control arm, it is nessesary to use a setup capable of transfering that force more efficiently.

I'll say it again, removing one upper arm from a Radius arm setup is NOT making a properly designed 3 link and is, in turn, an extremely weak setup.

[Zullock Holmes]

EDit:

actually just read the thread, the other guys pretty much took care of it.

I re-iterated.


Side note: Andy is right about the tow, didn't think of it when making that first post. Because you're still running a y-link steering setup, anytime you change the lift height of the jeep the allignment will change. Get 'dat biotch alligned, if another upper doesn't fix the problem.

[LittleD]

I wasn't trying to cut corners, just trying to find other designs that will work. How do ya think some fabricators come up with million dollar designs?

[HeavyMetal]

i am begging everyone in this thread.

please use toe, not tow.

[Hydra]

The other day I toad a car home.

[ninetysix-ex-jay]

How do ya think some fabricators come up with million dollar designs?

They don't normally do this on their DD. I'm not really aware of many muti million dollar Cherokee suspension designers.

[LittleD]

I'm not really aware of many muti million dollar Cherokee suspension designers.

http://claytonoffroad.com/

[HeavyMetal]

http://claytonoffroad.com/

i will have to tell clayton and adam the good news, i am sure theyll be tickled to learn theyre a multi million dollar company now!

[ninetysix-ex-jay]

http://claytonoffroad.com/

Yup, Claytons a multi-millionaire. You got me.

[ninetysix-ex-jay]

Have you ever even been to Clayton Offroad? Not knocking them at all they do great work (except for Zullo, he sucks) but dont you think if they were multi millionaires they would hire people instead of busting their ass 7 days a week? Because if they were I can picture Clayton on a beach 24/7 drinking twisted teas instead of commuting 2 hours to work each day.

[LittleD]

I didn't say he was a millionair, his designs are. It's a phrase.

[LittleD]

Have you ever even been to Clayton Offroad? Not knocking them at all they do great work (except for Zullo, he sucks) but dont you think if they were multi millionaires they would hire people instead of busting their ass 7 days a week? Because if they were I can picture Clayton on a beach 24/7 drinking twisted teas instead of commuting 2 hours to work each day.

Ever think they enjoy what they do?