GMO and Monsanto

[WarGin]

There is a reason Monsanto products are banned in Europe. The pollen from their products, although 'infertile', will still pollinate non genetically modified plants and render their seeds infertile, regardless of any other pollens, therefore ruining the sustainability of said crop(s). This is to ensure that the farmers return yearly for their seed stock. Not to mention the fact that the long term effects of gmos have not yet been discovered. The only form of genetic engineering that should be used, at least in my eyes, is basic crossbreeding of strains to achieve a certain goal (ie size, take largest male and largest female, take seeds, do it again, etc). This is the only sustainable option. Making seeds that grow once, although fabulous in size, that never reproduce, and inflict the same upon all similar species in the name of profits will eventually cause the extinction of unmodified plants.
To add to this, Monsanto throws out a couple million pounds of perfectly excellent modified produce daily, to keep prices up. Instead of trucking all that food to a landfill to rot over a couple weeks because bacteria wouldn't touch it, why not ship it to Darfur or the Philippines or wherever. It's a disgusting corporation and all the people involved in its organization should be shot.

[Nick]

So many untruths, so little time.

Yeah, cant the seeds of the GMO become airborne and then cross with the non-GMO seeds making them infertile?

This is not true. Monsanto does not produce the seeds with the "terminator gene." They can propagate normally.

That, and if they dont, the GMO companies that provinded the seeds apparently go after and sue these poor farmers for all they're worth.

So basically its Govt. bullshit.

Monsanto has only sued farmers 144 times over the period of 1997 to 2010 over patent infringement. In each of those cases, the farmer in question desired to take advantage of the benefits provided by the genetically engineered seed without paying for it. Monsanto has never sued an organic farm or anyone who did not want the genetically engineered seeds but ended up with them anyway.

Monsanto has a patent on their gmo seeds. There was a farmer that had a field next to the monsanto fields and he started to take some of their seeds that fell on his land and cross breed them with his seeds. They were technically a different strand but they still had monsanto genetics to them somewhat and they sued him up the ass.

In that case, the farmer went out and sprayed roundup on some of his neighbors property which he knew contained Monsanto products, noted which ones didnt die, then sent his employee out to harvest the seeds from those plants and store them for himself.

Probably why Heart disease is #1 cause of death followed by cancer at #2.

These are "diseases of old age," they are more prevalent now because people are living longer and can now die from these illnesses as opposed to dysentery, cholera, and drowning while fording the river.

Its a disgusting corporation and all the people involved in its organization should be shot.

You are an idiot.

Try reading something other than activist websites to get a fair and balanced view of reality. Has Monsanto done bad things in the past? Yeah, so have a lot of companies. Monsanto has also done a lot of good for the world at large, but since it doesn't fit the agenda, no one hears about that.

- Monsanto invented "glyphosate" which is a herbicide known as roundup. It is better for the environment than most other herbicides, less acutely toxic than tylenol, and degrades quickly in the soil.

- Monsanto developed a strain of "golden rice" which provides a significant amount of Vitamin A per serving. Vitamin A deficiency is a health issue that results in over 1 million deaths and 500,000 cases of irreversible blindness annually in the developing world that could be prevented with the adoption of this particular strain.

How are you going to feed the world's people without engineering crops to survive in the harshest environments possible. Companies like Monsanto are the only way to avoid starvation on a grand scale in the developing world.

At least if you're going to hate it, hate it based on facts.

[WarGin]

How are you going to feed the world if you throw out the food?
And I dont read activist... Anything. Maybe gun stuff, but to keep them haha.

Living in Europe you learn a lot. Monsanto can't pay off a euro politician. They've tried, it failed miserably. Monsanto is a corporation, by definition an organization designed to make money. Yes, monsantos products have the power to stop world hunger, but does it?! If you dot have the money' they won't sell you anything.
Humanity survived up until the 70s without Monsanto,a mere 40 years ago. That's tens of thousands of years of agriculture withouut GMOs.

You say that rice with vitamin a will help millions, but how many millions will it harm 20 years on when the effects on us become apparent?? Once again, there's a reason their shits illegal in the Eu

[Nick]

Monsanto is a corporation, by definition an organization designed to make money.

Which is bad, why? Proctor and Gamble is a corporation, Bristol-Myers Squibb is a corporation, Merck is a corporation, Pfizer is a corporation, should we do away with these companies too?

Yes, monsantos products have the power to stop world hunger, but does it?! If you dot have the money' they won't sell you anything.

After the Haiti earthquake, Monsanto donated $4mm worth of seed to the Haitian farmers.

In sub-Saharan Africa, it has embarked on a campaign with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation to introduce a drought-tolerant and insect-resistant maize strain in order to eventually sustain 300 million people that are exposed to hunger on a daily basis. Monsanto donated the drought-tolerant and insect-resistant traits royalty-free.

Humanity survived up until the 70s without Monsanto,a mere 40 years ago. That's tens of thousands of years of agriculture withouut GMOs.

Monsanto was founded in 1901.

The fact is that over the next 50 years, humanity will need to produce as much food as it did over the past 10,000 in order to sustain the population. Which is the issue Monsanto addresses with its products.

You say that rice with vitamin a will help millions, but how many millions will it harm 20 years on when the effects on us become apparent?? Once again, there's a reason their shits illegal in the Eu

The opinion of the scientific community is that (1) genetically modified foods prevent no measurable differences to the consumer when compared with traditionally cultivated foods and (2) organic foods present no measurable differences to the consumer when compared with traditionally cultivated food.

I'm sure starving people in Africa would trade 20 years of life for an unsubstantiated greater risk of cancer in their later years.

[Daven]

If they are such a good company why do so many places want their products banned? Yeah maybe starving people in Africa would want to eat it but that is life vs death. Why would someone in a first world country prefer GMO vs a natural food?

[WarGin]

^ that ^
Just because we can doesn't mean we should.
In a slightly similar note, agriculture and livestock in the US are a far cry from what it's actually 'supposed' to be. Have you ever eaten/seen naturally grown pork? The meat before its cooked is almost red , similar to beef. The shit you buy in a supermarket is so pumped up with antibiotics and hormones to ensure survival of 60000 pigs packed into a warehouse where all they do is eat and shit.
Watch a KFC commercial. Listen to them say the word 'chicken' once. You will never hear it, because the bird they produce , while enourmous and tender, is boneless, has no beak, and can't even be classified as a chicken anymore.
McDonald's got away with, and are still getting away with using meal worms in their patties,
Taco Bell has the federal limit of silicone allowed in food going up every year, and your still ok with this??

In the past 200 years the lifespan of a human has doubled, an now were just gonna reverse this incredible feat with shitty modified foods because everyones gotta save a buck to make a buck. It's disgusting.
It's like the FDA banning a medicine because the patent expired and god forbid generic meds were available. God forbid the multi billion dollar pharmaceutical company helps someone.

[Buffalo Phil]

If they are such a good company why do so many places want their products banned? Yeah maybe starving people in Africa would want to eat it but that is life vs death. Why would someone in a first world country prefer GMO vs a natural food?

That's easy; it's easier to sell misinformation rather than the actual truth. It's the exact same thing with fracking. Ask anyone and they will tell you that fracking is easily the worst thing you can do to extract natural gas and it's literally all lies. Some places have straight up banned it because people assumed it was the cause of many different problems in some states when no one can actually prove anything, so they lie and get people emotional about it.

Sure, the EU has banned GMOs, but their entire opinion is based on misinformation and lies. GM stands for Genetically Modified, not chemically modified. If you change around the DNA inside of a corn plant, it's now a GMO. If the company strengthens the seed to become more impervious to disease by only changing the DNA structure, how should that cause us cancer?

Everything is a scare, everything, it's all overhyped, it's all shown on television to induce fear and nothing but fear. The media does this with everything and the fact that you can't distinguish this overhyped fear and misinformation from the other bullshit you're fed every day is pathetic. Guns are practically banned in the EU, too, does that make guns bad? The EU is a fucking nanny state, so stop trying to compare us to them. In England they banned fire extinguishers from homes because it would give people the knowledge to try and put the fire out themselves thus putting them at risk. FIRE EXTINGUISHERS WERE DEEMED A SAFETY HAZARD. Of course they are going to ban things they don't know anything about.

Besides, many country in Europe are actually second world countries.

Watch a KFC commercial. Listen to them say the word 'chicken' once. You will never hear it, because the bird they produce , while enourmous and tender, is boneless, has no beak, and can't even be classified as a chicken anymore.
.

This is why no one takes anything you say seriously.

[WarGin]

ok you say everything is overhyped?
try underhyped.
the US is becoming more and more controlling of its media. remember that nuke plant that overheated in japan 3 years ago? yeah well just because we stopped hearing about it doesnt mean the problem went away. theyre finding high levels of radiation as far as texas. your not hearing anything about it. does that mean the probem doesnt exist?

I swear to god i learn more about the goings on in america from al Jazeera and BBC then i do from fox and cnn. American media will overhype when it serves there purpose,and underhype to protect their skins.

btw, do YOU know for a fact that modifying that corn WONT give you cancer?
Can YOU tell me FOR FACT that there are NO CONS whatsoever to gentically modifying ANYTHING?
I will make this argument as basic as possible.
Put 2 pigs next to each other, ones from a pork mill, the other was raised in someones backyard.
the one from a mill is unhealthy, dirty, constantly sick, constantly pumped with hormones and antibiotics to keep the animal alive long enough to slaughter it.
the backyard pig, because it was left to its own devices, is healthier, larger,smarter, more resilient to disease and in general HAPPIER,
whcih in the end makes a huge difference in both taste and nutritional value.

We dont know the effects of what we are doing in this age, and the people who come after us will curse us for what we have done.

ALSO, no need to call someone an idiot for expressing their opinion, i could call you an idiot for thinking that the US is better then one of those 'second world countries' when i highy doubt youve ever even left your country. there is no need to be an asshole when people are simply exprssing their opinions.

[WarGin]

btw there is not one single nation that has completely banned firearms,
just restrictions which i agree with you are not good and its not ok theyre trying to do it here too. but that argument has nothing to do with what were actually discussing

[HeavyMetal]

i highy doubt youve ever even left your country

first mistake in debate.....

[Buffalo Phil]

ok you say everything is overhyped?
try underhyped.
the US is becoming more and more controlling of its media. remember that nuke plant that overheated in japan 3 years ago? yeah well just because we stopped hearing about it doesnt mean the problem went away. theyre finding high levels of radiation as far as texas. your not hearing anything about it. does that mean the probem doesnt exist?

I swear to god i learn more about the goings on in america from al Jazeera and BBC then i do from fox and cnn. American media will overhype when it serves there purpose,and underhype to protect their skins.

btw, do YOU know for a fact that modifying that corn WONT give you cancer?
Can YOU tell me FOR FACT that there are NO CONS whatsoever to gentically modifying ANYTHING?
I will make this argument as basic as possible.
Put 2 pigs next to each other, ones from a pork mill, the other was raised in someones backyard.
the one from a mill is unhealthy, dirty, constantly sick, constantly pumped with hormones and antibiotics to keep the animal alive long enough to slaughter it.
the backyard pig, because it was left to its own devices, is healthier, larger,smarter, more resilient to disease and in general HAPPIER,
whcih in the end makes a huge difference in both taste and nutritional value.

We dont know the effects of what we are doing in this age, and the people who come after us will curse us for what we have done.

ALSO, no need to call someone an idiot for expressing their opinion, i could call you an idiot for thinking that the US is better then one of those 'second world countries' when i highy doubt youve ever even left your country. there is no need to be an asshole when people are simply exprssing their opinions.

I actually made a point in my last post about how the media was controlling people and then you actually made a point to say that the media is controlling the US like I didn't actually know that.

Yes, I have heard of Fukushima and I have been following it very closely.

And yes, the media will in fact overhype when it comes to GMOs because it fits their liberal agenda and if you think it is underhyped, then apparently you haven't been paying too close attention to it.

Now the pigs. Christ the farm animals. You keep bringing up the fucking animals that are being pumped up with chemicals. Did you even read my last post? I never called you an idiot until now. I'm not talking, nor have I ever been talking about your stupid fucking juiced up pigs. Those aren't genetically modified, those blatantly have chemicals and hormones pumped into them. I actually don't agree with that, but that does not for all that is fucking holy have anything to do with GENETIC MODIFICATION.

You're argument is simple because it's not even the right topic.

I have left this country, 3 times actually. I spent a week in Canada, Italy and Ireland.

The problem is you aren't expressing your opinion, you are trying to pass your opinion off as fact.

btw there is not one single nation that has completely banned firearms,
just restrictions which i agree with you are not good and its not ok theyre trying to do it here too. but that argument has nothing to do with what were actually discussing

Actually it does because if you read my last post again you'll understand why I brought it up. Maybe you missed the fire extinguisher reference as well.

But for the record I will say this so you have a rock hard hard on for the subject; I do not agree with pumping up animals with hormones and whatnot, but I do see a need to genetically modify plants for the a greater benifit

[Nick]

ok you say everything is overhyped?
try underhyped.
the US is becoming more and more controlling of its media. remember that nuke plant that overheated in japan 3 years ago? yeah well just because we stopped hearing about it doesnt mean the problem went away. theyre finding high levels of radiation as far as texas. your not hearing anything about it. does that mean the probem doesnt exist?

This is patently untrue, another falsehood you are spreading on the forum, "Fukushima radionuclides in ocean water and marine life are at trace levels and declining — so low that they are trivial compared with what already exists in nature"

Yay science.

btw, do YOU know for a fact that modifying that corn WONT give you cancer?
Can YOU tell me FOR FACT that there are NO CONS whatsoever to gentically modifying ANYTHING?

Can you tell me for a fact that there are? That is not a way to construct a logical argument. Theres a chance a meteor can hit me while I'm sleeping tonight, doesn't make me quiver in a corner under a doorway.

I will make this argument as basic as possible.
Put 2 pigs next to each other, ones from a pork mill, the other was raised in someones backyard.
the one from a mill is unhealthy, dirty, constantly sick, constantly pumped with hormones and antibiotics to keep the animal alive long enough to slaughter it.
the backyard pig, because it was left to its own devices, is healthier, larger,smarter, more resilient to disease and in general HAPPIER,
whcih in the end makes a huge difference in both taste and nutritional value.

Listen, I'm not saying mass produced foodstuffs are "better" I'm simply saying they exist for a reason. Would I rather eat locally raised organic food? Of course, but for the simple fact that it tastes better. But the quality comes with a price. Its expensive to buy food like that because its expensive to generate it. To produce enough food like that to feed the 330mm people that live in the US would be economically unfeasible. The industrial food business exists because it is the most cost effective and its what people can afford. No one forces you to eat it, so if you don't want it, don't buy it.

ALSO, no need to call someone an idiot for expressing their opinion, i could call you an idiot for thinking that the US is better then one of those 'second world countries' when i highy doubt youve ever even left your country. there is no need to be an asshole when people are simply exprssing their opinions.

I will continue to call you an idiot if you continue to pass off opinions and unsubstantiated claims off as facts on this forum, its a disservice to its members. Also, I have left the country and it hasn't changed my opinion that the US is better than second and third world nations.

[Nick]

It's like the FDA banning a medicine because the patent expired and god forbid generic meds were available. God forbid the multi billion dollar pharmaceutical company helps someone.

Where did the pharmaceutical industry get its money if its drugs didn't help people? Do they deposit pills at the bank? Is it the new national currency?

How silly of me, obviously all the new drugs do nothing to help people, we are simply beating diseases and living longer by pure magic!

Go spread your anti-capitalist hate elsewhere.

[Pedro]

Mmmmmmm I love fake pig

And if any non profitable corporations are hiring I'd love to hear! Resume in hand! Job security is for suckers.

And since when does the FDA ban medications when the patents expire?

[Daven]

Well, I am glad to see this thread has gained some momentum and even evoked some straight up trash talking. This is definitely my most successful thread.