Since the Subaru threads continue...

[ct67_72]

pretty sure everybodys equal. Kinda hope one of your kids turns out gay and want to marry another man, solely to see the look on your face

Again, I dont have a problem with homosexuality. My kid being gay isnt in this discussion, nor would it affect me much. Dont confuse my opinions on marriage with my opinion of homosexuality.

Im not going to argue my point any farther. I merely shared my opinion, which is what I thought this thread was about. I have respect for others opinions, and would like to hear them on the matter. Frankly this isnt an argument that will ever be won. But to only argue Im wrong and your opinion is only "who cares" doesnt make a strong point.

[hippie metal]

Oh yea, and your beastiality opinion holds so much more water

[Zullock Holmes]

I support gay marriage rights because it is not my right or anyone else's right to make laws that directly effect someone's personal life. I think that everyone has the right to do as they choose. Do i think it's okay to force churches to marry gay couples? No. because that's a violation of the church's rights. Do i believe it is okay for a couple, regardless of their sexual orientation to enjoy the benefits of a legal partnership like the rest of us, yes.

As for my personal views on homosexuality, those aren't part of this conversation....

But just to note: One can support gay rights and be personally opposed to the concept of homosexuality, they to me are not one in the same. One is an issue of liberty, just like the civil rights movement or women's suffrage. The other a personal belief that really only should affect the single life of the person who holds that belief.

[ct67_72]

Oh yea, and your beastiality opinion holds so much more water

So now you have an issue with beastiality? I thought everyone was equal? How about polygamy or incest? Is that ok too? They have equal rights as the rest of us. Should they be allowed to get married?
My point in that is, where does it end? It is a little extreme but emphasizes my point.
Again, I apologize for having an opinion. I should just "not care" like everyone else here and follow the herd.
Like I said from the beginning, I really dont feel strongly about it, just trying to state my opinion. Some of it sounds conflicting because it is. But thats how I feel.

[ct67_72]

I support gay marriage rights because it is not my right or anyone else's right to make laws that directly effect someone's personal life. I think that everyone has the right to do as they choose. Do i think it's okay to force churches to marry gay couples? No. because that's a violation of the church's rights. Do i believe it is okay for a couple, regardless of their sexual orientation to enjoy the benefits of a legal partnership like the rest of us, yes.

As for my personal views on homosexuality, those aren't part of this conversation....

But just to note: One can support gay rights and be personally opposed to the concept of homosexuality, they to me are not one in the same. One is an issue of liberty, just like the civil rights movement or women's suffrage. The other a personal belief that really only should affect the single life of the person who holds that belief.

Good post. Thank you.

[HeavyMetal]

I should just "not care" like everyone else here and follow the herd.

plz no

[Zullock Holmes]

And i'd also like to commend dan for standing his ground.

Gay rights is just like this "right-to-work" legislation issue.

It can be very difficult to stand against it because the people in support of it, as peaceful as they may seem... feel so strongly against opinions different than theirs that they feel the need to somehow restrict that person's voice. Label their opinion as racist or a crime of somesort.

It's the liberal hypocracy. People have different opinions and bashing someone for having a different opinion does not bode well for freedom of speech. If you seek equal rights, then don't challenge the first amendment right of the people who oppose you.

[HeavyMetal]

bashing someone for having a different opinion does not bode well for freedom of speech

sure it does, in fact that is a very representation of freedom of speech.

if you were to censor or limit someone on what they could say, then you'd have something.

[Ruepart Hoaxley]

Riiighhhhtt Jealous. Makes sense. I guess thats an easy out. Im just jealous of people on welfare too because they dont have to work.
Anyway. What is wrong with civil union? Why does it have to go farther than that? It gives you the basic rights recognizing you as a couple.
You cant argue equal rights when its not equal.

Who says they're not equal? They're people, aren't they? You have yet to give a response with either a factual or logical backup, rather than the "it's icky and I don't like it so they shouldn't get married" response that many people adopt instead of actually coming up with their own argument.


Sent from my pay phone in Chechnya

[Zullock Holmes]

Sux Butley feels very strong about this issue i see


......maybe that dizzdizz cockmeat sammich is in play.....

[Zullock Holmes]

sure it does, in fact that is a very representation of freedom of speech.

if you were to censor or limit someone on what they could say, then you'd have something.

there is a difference between publically opposing someone's free speech with your own rhetoric and beliefs. That is the point of debate and the 1st amendment.

But to just bash them and label them as a bigot or a racist or a gay hater, is wrong. And it's not using the first amendment in a way that is productive or builds a conversation that leads to progress.

[Asian Mike]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hne5a_jkdyw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hne5a_jkdyw[/ame]

[ct67_72]

Who says they're not equal? They're people, aren't they? You have yet to give a response with either a factual or logical backup, rather than the "it's icky and I don't like it so they shouldn't get married" response that many people adopt instead of actually coming up with their own argument.


Sent from my pay phone in Chechnya

Yes they are equal as people as I have said. But they are not equal as partners.
Man+Woman = ability to reproduce
Man+Man= no ability to reproduce = not equal.

[HeavyMetal]

there is a difference between publically opposing someone's free speech with your own rhetoric and beliefs. That is the point of debate and the 1st amendment.

But to just bash them and label them as a bigot or a racist or a gay hater, is wrong. And it's not using the first amendment in a way that is productive or builds a conversation that leads to progress.

no one is silencing or denying anyone else their chance to speak freely.

a debate, no matter how heated or ignorant, is still an excersize in freedom of speech

[ct67_72]

And i'd also like to commend dan for standing his ground.

Gay rights is just like this "right-to-work" legislation issue.

It can be very difficult to stand against it because the people in support of it, as peaceful as they may seem... feel so strongly against opinions different than theirs that they feel the need to somehow restrict that person's voice. Label their opinion as racist or a crime of somesort.

It's the liberal hypocracy. People have different opinions and bashing someone for having a different opinion does not bode well for freedom of speech. If you seek equal rights, then don't challenge the first amendment right of the people who oppose you.

Thank you. Kind of the point I was trying to make, but obviously much more well said lol.