Pirate4x4 BS on Crush Collars

[customcreationsllc]

So a question came up on Pirate about crush collars and everyone is under the impression that you can over crush a collar by smashing the pinion yoke on a rock.

I totally disagree.
What side are you on?

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1080545

[Bummer]

Bummer will do some good for today:

per exhibit A:



The red is the crush sleeve. See how its BETWEEN the races?

Any force hitting the flange will transfer to the blue bearings and into the case.

[Hydra]

INCONCEIVABLE!

[ct67_72]

You cant. The crush collar requires force both ways. Otherwise you are just pushing the outer bearing into the case as said above and lessening the load in the innter.

[justtorchit]

okay, here is a silly thought and i understand the crush sleave will not crush unless there is force on both sides. the pinion floats freely on the races.
im trying to imagine in my head if there is any loading on the pinion by the ring gear. pushing the pinion(therefore creating a force against the crush collar in that direction)

so say you have alot of rotating mass (big tires spinning fast)then all of a sudden the pinion hits a rock while the hammer is down. the pinion stops and the ring gear forces the pinion in or deflects in a way that it would cause a force and large preload on the inner pinion bearing due to the rotating mass of the tires at speed.

could that be a plausible way? i am curious here

[ct67_72]

I was thinking the exact same thing. But my thought is as long as the pinion is spinning it shouldn't be able to jamb on the ring gear. It would essentially walk on it.
Only way I thought of was if the wheels were locked and a ton of load on the gears and you slid into a rock. But it would be pushing it.

[customcreationsllc]

okay, here is a silly thought and i understand the crush sleave will not crush unless there is force on both sides. the pinion floats freely on the races.
im trying to imagine in my head if there is any loading on the pinion by the ring gear. pushing the pinion(therefore creating a force against the crush collar in that direction)

so say you have alot of rotating mass (big tires spinning fast)then all of a sudden the pinion hits a rock while the hammer is down. the pinion stops and the ring gear forces the pinion in or deflects in a way that it would cause a force and large preload on the inner pinion bearing due to the rotating mass of the tires at speed.

could that be a plausible way? i am curious here

Yes but the load from the pinion gear and the yoke get translated through the bearing and into the housing therefore cannot crush the sleeve.

Even if you say the crush sleeve can crush it still will not effect preload.

[justtorchit]

Yes but the load from the pinion gear and the yoke get translated through the bearing and into the housing therefore cannot crush the sleeve.

Even if you say the crush sleeve can crush it still will not effect preload.

The load would be translated through the bearings... okay. But if there is a force pushing the pinion in which is possible, that means the pinion can move in a few thousands causing a preload on the inner bearing and what i will call a hard stop for the pinion. Now that the pinion is pushed in a few thousands the yoke is hit and smooshes the outer pinion bearing in and few thousands. Now you have alot of preload on both bearings and the crush collar can crush....no???? No matter if the load is transfered into the bearings, the distance between the two bearings would want to shorten (note idk how much a crush caller can spring back).

This wont effect preload because obviously the bearings cant seperate more, but the crush collar could be loose. This could cause more damage for the bearing the next time the pinion gets hit in the same situation because there is nothing holding the bearings back from getting pushed in (besides the bearing races). Bearings can go bad... then you can have a sloppy pinion.

Just a thought. Prove me wrong please because im still curious.

[DizzDizz]

Its impossible just look ar the picture that says it all.

[Timmay]

It's possible. Crush collars sometimes reside on a land on the pinion, not the other bearing. If the pinion is trying to drive out of the case like it always is under load, and the flange pushes the other way, that collar can be crushed further. The "stop" is going to be when the outer pinion bearing bottoms out completely in the outer race. At a normal preload the outer pinion bearing has a slight flotation in gear oil. When setting preload it's best to douse the pinion bearings in gear oil for an accurate reading.

[DizzDizz]

It's possible. Crush collars sometimes reside on a land on the pinion, not the other bearing. If the pinion is trying to drive out of the case like it always is under load, and the flange pushes the other way, that collar can be crushed further. The "stop" is going to be when the outer pinion bearing bottoms out completely in the outer race. At a normal preload the outer pinion bearing has a slight flotation in gear oil. When setting preload it's best to douse the pinion bearings in gear oil for an accurate reading.

You right, you right.

[Timmay]

Its impossible just look ar the picture that says it all.

You right, you right.

.......oh.