3 link VS long arms

[Luke95]

If I were to build one of these setups id build it with a crossmember and run hiems on it, It would have to hook up to the factory dana 30 points I want to do a uprgrade on the axle but not now.

From a cost stand point and ease of building stand point radius arms seem cheaper but unload.
3 Link more in materials harder to build but better performance.
Keep in mind I want to stay at 3.5 ish
Idears?

[ct67_72]

3 link is certainly not more expensive. You would have to either run a drivers upper, or replace the axle side bracket though. Which is cheap and easy.
Decent amount of room on the passenger side to work with too. Look at Armands build (netrachamp) He just did a nice simple 3 link.

[Luke95]

3 link is certainly not more expensive. You would have to either run a drivers upper, or replace the axle side bracket though. Which is cheap and easy.
Decent amount of room on the passenger side to work with too. Look at Armands build (netrachamp) He just did a nice simple 3 link.

Will do, with a 3 link would a set of 21 ish arms be to short?

[wannabejeep]

you gotta do some math brotha

[ct67_72]

Not much math for a 3 link in the front. 21 is probably a bit short. I think mine are 29ish.

[Harry]

Will do, with a 3 link would a set of 21 ish arms be to short?

I think mine are about 20". Friend me on Facebook, I have a bunch of pics from my build in my Jeep album.

I've seen radius arm setups bend factory link towers and kill UCA bushing. 4 links (radius arms included) have to bind in order to flex. When you add radius arms with all hard joints and leave the only place to "squish" the 2" and probably high mileage UCA bushings, you're asking them to squish a lot.

Just my opinion, Radius arms do work, and lots of people use them with success.

[Luke95]

I think mine are about 20". Friend me on Facebook, I have a bunch of pics from my build in my Jeep album.

I've seen radius arm setups bend factory link towers and kill UCA bushing. 4 links (radius arms included) have to bind in order to flex. When you add radius arms with all hard joints and leave the only place to "squish" the 2" and probably high mileage UCA bushings, you're asking them to squish a lot.

Just my opinion, Radius arms do work, and lots of people use them with success.

I want to stay low and it seems extremely hard to run a good length arm at my hieght.
Pm me your name/FB if youd be so kind.

How did you set up your links on a crossmember or welded to the subframe?

[Harry]

Cut off LCA mount, plated unibody, welded on new brackets. New brackets lowered the mounting point of the arms 3" or so and I lost 1" of ground clearance under the bracket compared to stock. It also obviously relocated the mounting hole rearward. When I had drop brackets, they sucked. Hit on everything. I never get stuck on these.

[ct67_72]

You dont need really long arms. I like them shorter on mine because the lowers are below the frame. With a 40" tire, by the time I come down off of something Im just about clear of the arm anyway.
I use all 14" of my front shock travel too. The axle moves forward and back a little more than with a longer arm, but it really doesnt matter.
With a 3.5" spring my lowers were almost flat too. With 4.5's they are at a minimal angle. Rides great.

[Zullock Holmes]

If I were to build one of these setups id build it with a crossmember and run hiems on it, It would have to hook up to the factory dana 30 points I want to do a uprgrade on the axle but not now.

From a cost stand point and ease of building stand point radius arms seem cheaper but unload.
3 Link more in materials harder to build but better performance.
Keep in mind I want to stay at 3.5 ish
Idears?

At 3.5" of lift on an xj, short arms still have very relatively flat angles. And will articulate just as well as making a mid-arm 3 link. At that height you are going to be limited by shock travel, which will most likely be around 8" and if you do some tricky stuff you can get 10" shocks to fit.

Using stock upper control arm locations on the axle for your 3 link, will make it tough to get proper geometry in the upper arm. You NEED to upgrade to a strong and reliable aftermarket trackbar, as that setup relies heavily on the trackbar to keep your axle in the right place.

Idk if you drive on the road, but i have been biting my tongue on this issue for a while, it's coming out. Heims are crap on the road, unless you buy good ones from FK and even then they are stupid expensive to get the right shank diameter for a strong arm(approx $80 per joint) . 1.25" shank, 2 5/8" Johnny joints are $40 each and are completely rebuildable and softer for on road driving and have plenty of misalignment for 8-10" of travel. The only people that will ever see a benefit from using heims are people on the west coast that don't deal with mud and road salt or racers that actually have a use for a 3/4" thru bolt. Save yourself the money and the headache and just buy johnny joints. There's a reason that the most reliable and durable suspension kits on the market use them.

A good set of short arms, whether purchased or built by yourself with proper components will work the best for the setup you are talking about.

If you said you wanted to run 4.5" of lift i would tell you to build a set of radius arm style longarms, still insisting on johhny joints instead of heims. Radius arms unloading is a blown-out-of-proportion misconception that thrives on because of forum idiots and web wheelers. The unloading is so minimal at such high climb angles it would be ridiculous to even consider it when building a jeep with a purpose of being moderately wheeled. 3 links with lower links the same length unload in the exact same manner.

The only true benefit of a 3 link is that it is a better way, when crawling and doing front digs, to direct the torque load from the axle. It uses bigger hardware and larger joints than radius arm uppers, therefore gains it's strength in that manner.

I can tell you directly from the mouth of the class 2 rcrocs champ like 3 years in a row, that he noticed absolutely NO difference in performance when switching from radius arms to a 3 link in a competition setting, which is much more vigorous than trail wheeling. All of the gains are in the overall strength of the suspension setup.

[ct67_72]

Idk if you drive on the road, but i have been biting my tongue on this issue for a while, it's coming out. Heims are crap on the road, unless you buy good ones from FK and even then they are stupid expensive to get the right shank diameter for a strong arm(approx $80 per joint) .

Can you elaborate more on this Zullo? I love heims, and on the street. Been using Roughstuff 7/8 heims for a couple years. I cant find a draw back. Ive put like 15k miles on them so far, and Im no slouch when I wheel.
I would like to hear your thoughts though.

[ct67_72]

Radius arms unloading is a blown-out-of-proportion misconception that thrives on because of forum idiots and web wheelers. The unloading is so minimal at such high climb angles it would be ridiculous to even consider it when building a jeep with a purpose of being moderately wheeled. 3 links with lower links the same length unload in the exact same manner.

The only true benefit of a 3 link is that it is a better way, when crawling and doing front digs, to direct the torque load from the axle. It uses bigger hardware and larger joints than radius arm uppers, therefore gains it's strength in that manner.

This is good info too. For what 90% of people do, especially in this area, a radius arm is plenty. Thats why Tim got them, easy and proven.
There are some benefits outside of that though, like climbing ability. i found a bit of difference, and even some difference when changing separation on how the front climbs. Its not the difference of making an obstacle or not, but it makes a difference.

[Harry]

I run heims now. 7/8" on the upper, 1.25" on the lower. Uppers are mint, at least one and I'm suspecting two lowers are wobbly. I have put off ordering replacements because of what Zullo said about heims vs JJ. I can't even have 3k miles of on road driving on this setup though. Maybe the direct rock contact the heims see is also a factor? Idk.

Zullo, you have not seen any of the issues with killing UCA bushings and folding pass side upper mounts from radius arms?

[ct67_72]

I run heims now. 7/8" on the upper, 1.25" on the lower. Uppers are mint, at least one and I'm suspecting two lowers are wobbly. I have put off ordering replacements because of what Zullo said about heims vs JJ. I can't even have 3k miles of on road driving on this setup though. Maybe the direct rock contact the heims see is also a factor? Idk.

Zullo, you have not seen any of the issues with killing UCA bushings and folding pass side upper mounts from radius arms?

Mine was good with bushings unless something was off. If any of the arms had any load on them, or they were adjusted without the weight of the vehicle it would eat bushings. It also ripped mounts off.

[Luke95]

I have 10 shocks and I'm around 3.5 4 inches as the rubicon express springs are tall.
I am not complaining about the ride but if I'm making a skid plate why not add on to the plate if it improves off road performance.


Luke95