cherokee chief dana 44 in a CJ

[chris]

Ok, I know this topic has probably been done to death but I'm a bit confused on some things. I have a FSJ dana 44 rear thats about 58" wms-wms and a FSJ dana 44 front that is about 61" wms-wms. Now the rear is easy, its not so much wider than what I already have inside the CJ and all that is needed is for the spring mounts to be relocated and it'll pretty much bolt right in. The front is where I'm having some headache. To keep from having to outboard the spring hangers on the frame I need to cut the long side of the axle by about five inches. I can't just relocate the perches because the short side perch is cast into the center section. Now I don't have such a problem with this but if I cut the front then I end up with an axle that is 56" wms-wms which is two inches narrower than the rear. Will this cause me a problem? I know in general that the front is usually a hair wider than the rear and not the other way around. Why is this? Is it really going to affect my turning radius to have a front that is two inches narrower than the rear? Is there anything else that this might affect? I'm really racking my brain because I don't want to have to spend the money for a brand new custom front end. Any help is appreciated.

[Zullock Holmes]

you don't want the front narrower than than the rear. To be honest i don't even really know why, i could guess some reasons but who knows if they're actually right. I know it has something to do with the way the vehicle will not only track but corner as well.

I'm sure someone will post a better answer on that. Narrowing an axle isn't cheap either. I would just run it that width. worse comes to worse you could always use wheels with different backspacing which really isn't ideal, but if its a trail rig and you're not gonna be rotating your tires alot, then it'll be fine.

[chris]

you don't want the front narrower than than the rear. To be honest i don't even really know why, i could guess some reasons but who knows if they're actually right. I know it has something to do with the way the vehicle will not only track but corner as well.

I'm sure someone will post a better answer on that. Narrowing an axle isn't cheap either. I would just run it that width. worse comes to worse you could always use wheels with different backspacing which really isn't ideal, but if its a trail rig and you're not gonna be rotating your tires alot, then it'll be fine.

I can't run it full width, the spring perches don't line up. It either has to be narrowed or the spring hangers on the frame have to be outboarded. There is no alternative. If its narrowed then it will definitely be narrower than the rear.

[Zullock Holmes]

you can't move the spring perches on the axle?

[chris]

you can't move the spring perches on the axle?

no, the passenger side spring perch is cast into the center section. The only way to narrow it is to cut the tube in between the perches. The only other way to run it would be two relocate the spring hangers on the frame itself which presents its own hangups. I've done all of the measuring and I'm positive that those are the only two ways to run it. The only things I'm confused on are the reasons why you would need the front end to be wider than the rear. Minimum the front end will need about four and a half to five inches cut out which reduces the wms to wms measurement to 56 inches which is about CJ wide track width as it is. The problem would be the fact that I would be running the rear stock width which would be 58.5 wms to wms which would make the rear two and a half inches wider than the front. I know that traditional rule of thumb is that the front needs to be wider than the rear but I don't know all of the reasons why.

[Ruepart Hoaxley]

Run 1.25 spacers up front.

[DizzDizz]

if you really want to run this axle, the only way you can do it it is line up the impossible to move side which is the driver side. then you will have to shorten the other side which you can move the perch on.then you will need a custom axle shaft on that side of course. its pricey but its the right way of doing it, in my eyes of course.

[Zullock Holmes]

cj is too narrow, if you just use that perch the axle will stick out on the drivers side farther than he wants it to, otherwise that would work.

You would need to relocate that driver side perch (not using the one of the centersection) and narrow the passenger side down. Although that may center the housing too far underneath the jeep.

Chris, I see what you're saying now, seems like you would have to narrow each individual side. cut the c's off, cut the axle accordingly, buy new c's, use the OEM outer stuff if money is an issue, you can buy blank shafts from superior then doug at extreme axle sales can cut them to size and spline them for you. Not much, will probably cost you around 200ish for each inner shaft. This way you can still use that perch on the centersection and just weld one onto the passenger side.

BTW.... your CJ is driver drop??? assuming that was a waggy front.... if not just correct what i said accordingly.

Have any pics??

[customcreationsllc]

I got 5 on 5.5 outer stuff for a D44, C's knuckles hubs etc. If you want to just build your own axle, I have inner shafts too $40 for everything.
I also have a center diff that I might be willing to sell I ground it out to fit D50 gears and modified bearings to use D50 gears as well.
I'm just going to go with a D60 now and call it done.

Why not just lengthening the short side and shortening the long side if your that worried.
Custom length axles shafts are just a phone call away.

Are you running driver or passenger drop? Passenger drop the pinion will be closer to the leaf spring a little more drive shaft room. You can look into swapping long and short side.

I've also seen people off set the front axle to one side a lot easier

My friend Jeremy has a D60 narrowed in the front and a full width 14bolt rear the rear is about 2" wider on each side to 4" wms-wms and he said it tracks great.
We just planned on buying offset wheels or spacers but he said it drives great so we just left it alone.

Also I wouldn't be too worried about flexing the springs out just a little bit if you can get it close.
Or grind the housing so you can get the spring closer.
And what do you have against outboard springs? If you did outboard the springs you probably would be done by now.


You have a lot of options.
How much road is this going to see?

I know the CJ frames are narrow. But I did build a D60 for the front.

[chris]

cj is too narrow, if you just use that perch the axle will stick out on the drivers side farther than he wants it to, otherwise that would work.

You would need to relocate that driver side perch (not using the one of the centersection) and narrow the passenger side down. Although that may center the housing too far underneath the jeep.

Chris, I see what you're saying now, seems like you would have to narrow each individual side. cut the c's off, cut the axle accordingly, buy new c's, use the OEM outer stuff if money is an issue, you can buy blank shafts from superior then doug at extreme axle sales can cut them to size and spline them for you. Not much, will probably cost you around 200ish for each inner shaft. This way you can still use that perch on the centersection and just weld one onto the passenger side.

BTW.... your CJ is driver drop??? assuming that was a waggy front.... if not just correct what i said accordingly.

Have any pics??

I think this is coming across way more confusing than it actually is. The axle is passenger side drop with the passenger side spring perch being cast into the center section. That means that I can not relocate it. Theres also only 10" between the center of that spring perch and the wheel mounting surface which is pretty much exactly what it needs to be. That would mean that for all intents and purposes the passenger side should NOT be touched. Now the distance from the center of the driver side spring perch and the wheel mounting surface is also 10" which is what it needs to be, but because its a much wider front end, the dimension between the two spring perches on the axle itself is too wide. It measures 32" and it needs to be 27". Having said all of this, the only conclusion that can be reached is that the front end has to be narrowed by 5". Now if we can't narrow the passenger side because the spring perch is cast then we know we need to narrow the driver side. You can do this anywhere on the driver side as long as you do not alter the distance between the center of the spring perch and the wheel mounting surface. It MUST remain 10" so that it matches the passenger side or else one wheel will hang outside the frame farther than the other. This means that you have two choices; Narrow the axle between the spring perches by 5" and then reweld it without ever touching the spring perches, or cut the driver side spring perch off, cut the axle at the knuckle and press out the excess material, narrow the axle tube and re-press it into the knuckle and weld it, and then re-weld the spring perch, making sure that you maintain the 10" distance between the center of the spring perch and the wheel mounting surface. This would give you an axle that has the REQUIRED 10" on both sides between the spring perches and wheel mounting surfaces and the REQUIRED 27" between the two perches themselves. That is the only way that this axle could be narrowed and still be used. Those dimensions must remain as they are. Now there is another option that would keep the axle stock and thats too fabricate some kind of new spring hangers that hang outside the frame. But this would make the front end much too wide for my purposes and presents its own set of problems when it comes to getting everything lined up and fitting like it should. Probably the best way to use this front end would be narrow it like I described. But here in lies my problem and the only one that I am needing advice on; This would make my front end 2" narrower than my rear. Is it really that critical for the front end to be wider than the rear? I have a rear Dana 44 that will totally work and its 58.5" from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. But after the front end is narrowed it will come out to 56.5" which like I said, leaves my front end 2" narrower than my rear and I reeeeaaaalllyyy dont want to have to pay to have the rear narrowed and another custom axle shaft.

[chris]

if you really want to run this axle, the only way you can do it it is line up the impossible to move side which is the driver side. then you will have to shorten the other side which you can move the perch on.then you will need a custom axle shaft on that side of course. its pricey but its the right way of doing it, in my eyes of course.

totally get what your saying my setup is just reversed, the impossible to move side is the passenger side not the driver side but other than that you are completely correct. But thats not my issue, my issue is that the front will then be narrower than the rear. Will this cause me any real problems?

[Zullock Holmes]

I think this is coming across way more confusing than it actually is. The axle is passenger side drop with the passenger side spring perch being cast into the center section. That means that I can not relocate it. Theres also only 10" between the center of that spring perch and the wheel mounting surface which is pretty much exactly what it needs to be. That would mean that for all intents and purposes the passenger side should NOT be touched. Now the distance from the center of the driver side spring perch and the wheel mounting surface is also 10" which is what it needs to be, but because its a much wider front end, the dimension between the two spring perches on the axle itself is too wide. It measures 32" and it needs to be 27". Having said all of this, the only conclusion that can be reached is that the front end has to be narrowed by 5". Now if we can't narrow the passenger side because the spring perch is cast then we know we need to narrow the driver side. You can do this anywhere on the driver side as long as you do not alter the distance between the center of the spring perch and the wheel mounting surface. It MUST remain 10" so that it matches the passenger side or else one wheel will hang outside the frame farther than the other. This means that you have two choices; Narrow the axle between the spring perches by 5" and then reweld it without ever touching the spring perches, or cut the driver side spring perch off, cut the axle at the knuckle and press out the excess material, narrow the axle tube and re-press it into the knuckle and weld it, and then re-weld the spring perch, making sure that you maintain the 10" distance between the center of the spring perch and the wheel mounting surface. This would give you an axle that has the REQUIRED 10" on both sides between the spring perches and wheel mounting surfaces and the REQUIRED 27" between the two perches themselves. That is the only way that this axle could be narrowed and still be used. Those dimensions must remain as they are. Now there is another option that would keep the axle stock and thats too fabricate some kind of new spring hangers that hang outside the frame. But this would make the front end much too wide for my purposes and presents its own set of problems when it comes to getting everything lined up and fitting like it should. Probably the best way to use this front end would be narrow it like I described. But here in lies my problem and the only one that I am needing advice on; This would make my front end 2" narrower than my rear. Is it really that critical for the front end to be wider than the rear? I have a rear Dana 44 that will totally work and its 58.5" from wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. But after the front end is narrowed it will come out to 56.5" which like I said, leaves my front end 2" narrower than my rear and I reeeeaaaalllyyy dont want to have to pay to have the rear narrowed and another custom axle shaft.

We are on the exact same wavelength, that's basically what i was saying only reversed cause i wrote it assuming it was driver drop for some assine reason. Lucky that the cast perch ends up working out and you only have to narrow one side.

Seems like you got it pretty well figured out.

I wouldn't worry about the rear too much, it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

good luck.

[customcreationsllc]

You need an new enter button

I've seen people to some crazy things on the cast in perch like to get the springs closer like notching the diff etc.

I wouldn't worry about the 1" sticking out on each side you will never notice it like I said my friends rear sticks out over 2" on each side and he says it drive great he drives it everywhere high way all the time.

As for cutting down the axle easiest way is just cut off the perch and reweld it on or just buy a new one they are cheap like $10

Then cut the tube to length.
Cut the tube off the knuckle right through the weld.
Saws all across the inside of the tube in a couple places the tube falls right out of the knuckle, don't try the press it will not work.
Hone it out with a 1/4" air grinder and some sand paper. Slice the head off a long 1/4" bolt then put a slot down the middle. shove a 1" sand paper strips facing both ways in the slot the centrifugal force holds it centered works awesome for opening holes up like that.

press the knuckle on with a sledge hammer match the angle to the other one.

weld and done.

Call moser every axle is cut to length per order so custom lengths don't cost anything. you will have a new chrome molly custom length shaft in a week about $250

It doesn't take long. I can probably do the whole job if the axle was apart in 2hrs.

Same goes with shortening a D60
Good luck
~Justin

[customcreationsllc]

Did you said you have the ford axles with the cast wedges?
That is a little more tricky
It has a normal knuckle under all that just buy some tubing it is expensive.
If it is 3.125 DO i can sell you some but I think it is smaller.

Depends on what you want to do at that point cheap or best.
Cheap you can do the same thing as I said with the knuckle but just with the cast wedge.
Best buy a new tube.